киножурнал -хочу все знать!-

Розыгрыш? Если меня спросят - кто я по вероисповеданию, я отвечу - мормон, подразумевая ветвь христианства. На протяжении всей истории Церки в этом устроении мы называли себя христианами.

1830
“They call themselves the church of Christ, and the only church of Christ. All professing Christians who do not adhere to their system, they consider as formalists; ‘having the form of Godliness, but denying the power’”.[3]
1831
“Old Joe . . . and several others . . . admitted [that the new faith] was an improvement in Christianity”.[4]
1832
The Mormonites “say the Millennium is soon to commence and that Christ is to come personally and take up His residence with them. . . . In its general principles this sect entirely coincide with others which have from time to time sprung up in Christendom”. [5]
1833
There is “a civil war between the Mormonites and their brother Christians”. [6]
1834
"Brother Joseph . . . went on to show the brethren how wicked and unchristianlike such conduct [among them] appeared before the eyes of truth and justice”.[7]
1835
“the doctrine promulgated by the ‘latter day Christians’ in the newly discovered Bible”.[8]
1836
“This morning a minister from Conne[c]ticut by the name of John W. Olived called at my house . . . . [He] asked me wherein we differ from other Christian denomination[s]”.[9]
1837
“they have the appearance of being devout Christians. . . . They call themselves ‘Latter-day Saints,’ and profess to be the only true church, to have the only gospel order, consisting of apostles, elders, bishops, etc., etc., which several orders of the Christian hierarchy have been distinctly brought to light in the Book of Mormon”.[10]
1838
"The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it".[11]
1839
"This sect took its rise, A. D. 1830, in the county of Ontario, and State of New York. In April of that year, the society was organized as a Christian Church".[12]
1839
The Mormons “were singing a hymn as other good Christians are wont to do . . . . [One of them offered] a very good Christian prayer . . . . [which petitioned that the Mormons might have] Christian fortitude.” (Peoria Register and North-Western Gazetteer, vol. 3, no. 17, 27 July 1839)
1840
“We want no religion but pure Christianity”.[13]
1841
“I understood from [the Mormons] as follows, . . . that they did not discard the Bible as used by other Christian sects”.[14]
1842
“the great Christian city of Nauvoo”.[15]
1842
Mormons “are Christians in the fullest sense of the term, believing in the Old and New Testaments.” (The New York Herald, vol. 7, no. 419, 16 May 1842).
1843
"So far we are agreed with other Christian denominations. They all preach faith and repentance. The gospel requires baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, which is the meaning of the word in the original language—namely, to bury or immerse".[16]
1844
“The [Saturday] Courier should for the sake of truth and consistency, strike its flag of neutrality in RELIGION, while it wages a war of extermination against the Mormons; the only sect in Christendom, who in this nineteenth century can exhibit the irresistible evidence of martyrdom, in support of its cause”.[17]
1853
Now, we ARE believers in the Bible, and in consequence of our unshaken faith in its precepts, doctrine, and prophecy, may be, attributed "the strangeness of our course," and the unwarrantable conduct of many towards this people. Come, my brother Presbyterian; come, my brother professors of every persuasion of long standing and popular distinction in the world, who are dubbed with the word "ORTHODOX;" come, we are all good Christians; I find no fault with you—why should you find fault with me?[18]
1859
We, as Christians, are divided and subdivided into many systems varying in doctrinal points. This one says, "I am right;" and that one says, "I am right;" another rises up and varies, more or less, from the doctrines of the Church he has left, and says he is right.[19]
1861
"…who is there that was not startled when he heard that a sect, affecting to be Christian beyond all other sects, which had sprung up in broad day from admidst the civilization of the United States…"[20]
1863
Should you ask why we differ from other Christians...Are all this people, in the Scriptural sense, Christians? They should be. Do they all serve God with an undivided heart? They should. Many of them do, seeking daily to do his will.[21]
1864
The Latter-day Saints differ from their Christian brethren.[22]
1866
Now, we as Christians desire to be saved in the kingdom of God.[23]
President B. Young preached a very interesting and instructive discourse, in which he showed that professing Christians believe all that the Jews believe, which appertains to life and salvation, and have accepted principles in advance of the Jews, including faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; and that the Latter-day Saints receive all believed in by other professing Christians, appertaining to life and salvation, accepting, as a part of their religious faith, principles in advance of them which are taught in the Scriptures. He touched upon the history of the Jewish people, showing the penalties which they had incurred by disobedience to the commandments of God, and pointing to the promises made to the patriarchal fathers concerning them. And deduced that if the condition of professing Christians is to-day better than that of the Jews, for believing more of the revelations of God, so the condition of the Saints is preferable to that of the other inhabitants of Christendom, in accepting all the revelations which the Lord has been pleased to give. [24]
1866
"On one occasion one of the native brethren who had been persecuted, claimed his rights as a Swiss citizen, and the question was brought up in the Swiss Congress, Are the 'Mormons' Christians? After some discussion, the conclusion was arrived at that they were, and must accordingly be protected."[25]
1870
Have you embraced truth, Latter-day Saints? Have you anything different from other Christians?[26]
1871
If you should have visits here from those professing to be Christians, and they intimate a desire to preach to you, by all means invite them to do so. Accord to every reputable person who may visit you, and who may wish to occupy the stands of your meeting houses to preach to you, the privilege of doing so, no matter whether he be a Catholic, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Baptist, Free-will Baptist, Methodist, or whatever he may be; and if he wishes to speak to your children let him do so. Of course you have the power to correct whatever false teachings or impressions, if any, your children may hear or receive. I say to parents, place your children, as far as you [p.196] have an opportunity to do so, in a position or situation to learn everything in the world that is worth learning. You will probably have what is called a Christian Church here; they will not admit that we are Christians, but they cannot think us further from the plan of salvation as revealed from heaven than we know them to be, so we are even on that ground, as far as it goes.[27]
We are preaching to the people far and near; our Elders are traveling through the earth; strangers are coming here, and we are declaring to them that the Gospel of the Son of God is true. Whether they believe or not, it is no matter. That book (the Bible)contains the words of the Almighty…. I know of the bright promises which he gave to his disciples anciently. I live in the possession of them, and glory in them and in the cross of Christ, and in the beauty and holiness that he has revealed for the salvation and exaltation of the children of men. I do wish we would live to them, and may the Lord help us. [28]
1872
We, as Christians, believe in God, in Christ and in his atonement, in repentance and obedience, and in receiving the Spirit.[29]
"we take the liberty to believe the Bible, which our fellow Christians, generally throughout the world, profess to believe in…”[30]
“We are looking for him [i.e. Second coming of Christ]. The Christians of all denominations expect that he will appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The Latter-day Saints expect this in common with all other Christians.”[31]
1876
These are only a few reflections, when we take into consideration our Christian religion.[32]
Brother Cannon speaks of Christians. We are Christians professedly, according to our religion.[33]
“How shall we, as Christians, reconcile these words of our Savior with the reception everywhere given by the world to Messrs. Moody and Sankey? They are, professedly, Christian ministers, yet they are largely entertained by the world, extolled by the world, and apparently loved by the world….”[34]
“But Joseph Smith reiterates the Savior’s promises. He has no fear of being proved a false teacher. He professes to be a Christian minister called and sent of God….”[35]
“Immediate revelation was the life of primitive Christianity, and when that ceased to be given to men, Christianity waxed feeble, waned and died. With the restored Gospel came immediate revelation, and Christianity was born again upon the earth.”[36]
1881
We are a Christian community; we believe in God and in Jesus Christ...[37]
1892
"What a singular sort of ‘Christian community’ that must be that will not tolerate an unorthodox Christian society in its midst!”[38]
“The insinuation in this [written attack on the LDS by a Protestant minister in SLC] is to the effect that a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian, and the ‘Mormon’ religion is not a Christian religion, and further that the Supreme Court of the United States has virtually so decided…. But if a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian then there are no Christians in America…. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is at least as fairly entitled to the appellation of a Christian as a member of the Presbyterian Church”[39]
“[with reverence to Revelation 1. 12] We accept—as all Christians do—that God inspired the words ‘to see the voice.’”[40]
1907
If it be true Christianity to accept Jesus Christ in person and his mission as divine; to revere him as the Son of God, the crucified and risen Lord, through whom alone mankind can attain salvation; to accept his teachings as a guide, to adopt as a standard and observe as a law the ethical code he promulgated; to comply with the requirements prescribed by him as essential to membership in his Church, namely, faith, repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost,—if this be Christianity, then are we Christians, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church.[41]
1956
We are not Catholic, Protestant, nor Jewish, and yet this disclaimer should not be taken to mean we are not Christian. You who heard the powerful address of President Clark this morning will know that we are Christians, for central to everything we believe and teach is our faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. We are grateful for our Judeo-Christian heritage, for the Holy Bible which we accept without reservation as the word of God, except as to some errors that have crept in through translations.[42]

http://fairwiki.org/index.php/Latter-day_Saints_aren't_Christians

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai052.html (тут тонна статей по тематике: Мормоны - христиане, потому что...)

Отредактировано VIC (13-06-2007 21:31:44)

Большинство высказываний приведенных выше не случайно относятся к ранней истории Церкви, потому что критики говорят, что именно тогда мормоны не считали себя христианами, что является ложью. А если так уж трудно найти про современность, то вот рекомендую: http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/m … dByAuthor=

можете сами посмотеть все 2244 статьи на lds.org Gospel Library (с конференций, статей Лиахоны,  и т.д.), упоминающих мормонов как христиан, можете и по годам выстроить :rtfm:

Отредактировано VIC (14-06-2007 00:24:13)

Точно точно, ради любопытства листал учебнички по религиоведению, если о нас упоминают, то зачастую причисляют к "радикальным" христианским деноминациям.

Отредактировано VIC (14-06-2007 13:19:44)

what do you mean?

Спасибо за уточнение Владимир, нас причисляют к протестантам прибавляя разные эпитеты к этому слову. Но ни у кого не будет, надеюсь, вопросов с соотнесением терминов протестаны и христиане :yes:

Вот, например, полюбопытствуйте - карта религий России, составленная группой специалистов Российской академии естественных наук под руководством академика РАЕН Павла Пучкова.

Мы в группе "Маргинальные протестанты":

Члены «Семьи» («Дети Бога»)
Последователи Международных церквей Христа
Последователи Поместной церкви (Церкви дома собраний)
Свидетели Иеговы
Муниты (последователи Церкви объединения)
Сайентисты (последователи Христианской науки)
Мормоны (последователи Церкви Иисуса Христа святых последних дней)

http://www.interfax-religion.ru/map/

Отредактировано VIC (15-06-2007 13:24:22)

Если Вы обращали внимание, каждое причастное собрание начинается ведущим словами - "...собрание Таганского (например) прихода Московского Западного округа Церкви Иисуса Христа Святых последних дней..." как еще можно по другому сказать, что мы считаем себя последователями Христа? Или мы не заканчиваем молитву, свидетельство,... именем Иисуса Христа. Этого недостаточно? Надо в свидетельство, что мы верим, что "Иисус Христос жив, мы в него верим"... добавлять "и мы христиане"? Для меня логично следует, если человек верит в Христа, посвящает свою жизнь служению Ему - он христианин, говоря при этом дословно "я христианин" или нет.

Отредактировано VIC (17-06-2007 14:27:47)

А что такое мормонский новояз?
И раз есть новояз, то должен быть старояз?

Прошу пояснения в студию!

Давайте я еще раз спрошу, чтобы было понятно.
О каком новоязе вы говорите?

Я не спрашиваю о том, что говрят на свидетельском собрании. Это я и так знаю. Говорят о многом.

Я спрашиваю, что это за новояз моромнский такой?
Прошу примеры.
Также прошу рассказать о староязе мормонском и также с примерами.

А чего будет достаточно?

А с какими церквями Вы сравниваете? Как ответит православный на вопрос какого он вероисповедания? Скажет православный или христианин? А другие как?

Отредактировано VIC (17-06-2007 20:42:39)